Originally Posted by sukie
God forbid we do something about a massive problem. Freeloaders need to GTFO.
God forbid we do something about a massive problem. Freeloaders need to GTFO.
Sure, if you don't understand the law. A police officer can't just walk up to someone and demand they identify themselves without a reason.
Yeah, let's totally just start ripping up the Bill of Rights because Mexicans are taking all our shit-paying jobs!
God forbid we do something about a massive problem. Freeloaders need to GTFO.
There couldn't be a constitutional way of dealing with this problem, could there?
If they've earned citizenship, there shouldnt be problems.
It goes oh so much deeper than that. These illegals are stealing legal citizens' social security numbers and completely fucking those peoples lives up. But since you make it seem so simple and have no problem with these people not paying taxes then so be it. I fucking hate people that are okay with handouts. You foot the fucking bill then, I want to stop wasting my tax dollars on these criminals.
So you're a beat cop, and you see a couple Mexican looking guys hanging around outside a convenient store for awhile. Do you detain them and ask them for their papers? On what grounds?
I love the Strawmen that come out in these arguments.
Somehow, by my thinking the rule of law should be followed, I support:
a.) handouts
b.) illegal immigrants
c.) identify theft
Awesome. I love adult conversations. But misplaced angry rants are so much better.
It is a little sketchy to just ask...but in essence its justified in that you're either a citizen or not.
Cops can't just go up to people and start questioning them unless they have a demonstrable reason that they can later show in court. It's not justified legally by whether you're a citizen or not. That's why searches get thrown out of court.
unreasonable is very vague.
I have ID all the time .. No big deal
God forbid we do something about a massive problem. Freeloaders need to GTFO.
Not when it comes to race.
So, since this law wouldn't effect Sukie, it's okay.
You are assuming that every single cop stop is racial. Random DUI checkpoints are unreasonable searches.
LALALALALALAFONTAINE (05-26-2010)
I'm not assuming that. But in this case, the nature of the law dictates that many of the searches would have to be racially based. Even the police in Arizona agree with that, which is why many of them are fighting the law. They don't want to get sued, or waste their time on cases that will be thrown out of court. I don't blame them.
The courts have ruled there is a lowered expectation to privacy while driving a car, which is why DUI checkpoints are not considered unreasonable.
Where in the Bill does it say that cops can just walk up to a few "Mexican looking guys" and ask them for papers?
It's not the support of "handouts" per se, but I think things such as these "handouts" are what are causing the problems in the first place. The law seems put in place more to force the Federal Government's hand into doing something about the situation than basically declaring martial law with regards to citizenship. However, the government didn't budge, and now Arizona is showing that they aren't bluffing.
As for the contents of the law itself, any time you write a memo in a law that at least insinuates "we're cracking down on situation x", you're on thin ice. The question always becomes "where do you draw the line"? There's nothing unconstitutional per se about pulling a guy over for, say, speeding, and then making them produce proof of citizenship (i.e. driver's license). However, it's basically a glorified "zero-tolerance" policy when it comes to lack of documentation. Here's an example. My brother got pulled over for speeding, on a day he conveniently forgot his wallet. He could have been in deep shit. The cop says just give me your SSN, and I'll look you up. He turns out clean (after matching up the registration) and lets my brother go. The Arizona law pretty much discourages a policeman from doing that. The problem becomes the issue of where to draw the line. The Arizona law, in theory, still says that there has to be cause, if I understand it right. The problem I have is that going 57 in a 55 becomes cause because emphasis is being put verification of documentation. Tie this in with racial profiling, and you have a mess. If a policeman sees an Hispanic driving a car, he can tail him until he does something illegal. I remember a policeman once telling me, if you follow a driver long enough, 99 times out of 100, he'll do something that's technically illegal, even if it's losing focus for a second and swerving onto a double-middle line. The motivation to do something like that, which, even most policemen will tell you, is kind of a dick move to begin with, becomes even greater. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that it's encouraged, if only "off the record". By strict letter of the law, it's not racial profiling. The Hispanic will have done something illegal. However, in the "spirit" of the law, the policeman is profiling. This says nothing of the actual citizen who accidentally leaves his wallet at home (we've all done it). Sure, eventually, things will get cleared up, but it becomes a hassle that shouldn't even be necessary.
The bill defines no grounds for what constitutes reasonable suspicion of being illegal. Which many people (police included) believes opens up a Pandora's Box of racial profiling, lawsuits, and non-cooperation from the (legal) Hispanic community.
The bill also lets citizens SUE the police for not investigating people. So the cops are getting it from both ends, and this isn't even their mess to clean up. It's the federal government's.
Mo is completely right. If this law ever gets up to the Supreme court they will strike it down faster than you hear about it. As far as Trey being so angry; how soon you forget most of our ancestors that came here got off the boat with like $10 in their pocket, i.e. my great,great grandma. Most of them came here to "steal" jobs as you call them and "take handouts" to better their life. Once they established themselves they would move out of the ghettos and stop taking handouts. Also you complain about people stealing SSN and such, how soon you forget that the first gangs in this country were the Jewis in NYC. After the Jews came the Irish,Italian and etc... As you can see those cultures rose up and assimilated into American culture and made themselves successful so they don't have to resort to crime anymore. The cycle has now shifted to Latin Americans and Mexicans. The cycle will continue and eventually another culture will take this "immigrant" spot and then we can all hate them. Also most of the immigrants that come here are law abiding, hard working people. They are always a few bad apples but you can't judge a whole culture on a few individuals. In fact according to the FBI crime is down in AZ, so if these immigrants are such villains why isn't crime at an all time high?
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Yeah that much is true. This is largely the Feds fault, as they've been ignoring this issue for years.
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